Newbie CO2 questions. Please help

[Sslandry]

I just converted my single guage regulator to a a dual guage and added a splitter to the gas line so I can do 2 kegs at a time. My new high pressure guage shows 600lbs.

1) How long will 600lbs last?

2) is it okay to run my gas through 1/4 inch line to the keg or will it drop the pressure at the keg from the resistance of the line? I will have about 3 feet of line. I chose 1/4 inch line because that is the diameter of the barbed ball lock gas connector. I am pretty sure I have my liquid lines balanced to support 12lbs of keg pressure finally. This was after reading tons of threads on the subject, but nothing is ever mentioned about the gas lines.

Thanks.

[Evan!]

A) Depends on how much you drink and whether you use it for burst-carbing, etc.
B) 1/4" should be fine. Gas resistance is not the same as liquid resistance.

[sanders5x]

A.)Depends on how many leaks you have! Those used kegs can be a bugger to seal up. I had a roommate swap out a keg once when I was gone and have a stuck disconnect and loose a brand new tank in a matter of an hour or so.

[Sslandry]

I am about to force carb a batch of extra pale ale after crash cooling it another day. I guess I will see how long it lasts and hope it does not run out on a weekend when my gas place is closed.

[sanders5x]

Take a spray bottle of star-san and spray every fitting down for leaks. If there is the slightest leak, you will see bubbles. Be sure to test the regulator-tank connection. This is where you could loose the content of the tank in minutes if there is a leak. You might need a new CO2 washer.

[Highlander]

I've got a couple of keg questions. I have always bottled because using kegs has always seemed a lot of effort, and expensive. But since there are so many people here that use kegs, I may have the wrong impression:

- Once you get everything (fridge, kegs, CO2 cylinder, fittings, etc) how much does it cost to keg and consume a batch of beer? All that gear has to be a major investment to begin with.

- How much maintenence is there of the system?

- How quickly do you need to consume a keg?

- How many kegs do you really need. Say you like Pale Ales, Largers, and Stouts. Would you need 1 or more for each style? I assume you have to wait for one to empty before kegging the next. I guess it can sit in a carboy for as long as necessary and be ready for drinking shortly after kegging.

[Big_John]

1. The high pressure gage on the tank will remain at a constant reading so long as there is some liquid CO2 remaining given that the ambient temperature is the same. What the gage is actually measuring is the vapor pressure of the CO2. Once the gage begins to drop, the tank will be nearly empty and you should start thinking about getting it refillled. The only way to determine the actual amount of gas in the tank is to weigh it. The tare weight (weight of the empty tank) will be stamped somewhere near the top of the cylinder. Subtract the tare weight from the total weight and you have the weight of the remaining CO2. ie, 5 lbs for a full 5 lb cylinder etc. Don't forget to include the weight of the regulator and gas line if you do it this way. I weighed my empty tank w/the regulator attached and wrote it on the side of the tank for future reference. You will need a fairly accurate scale to use this procedure, especially so for the smaller tanks. I broke the high preesure gage on my regulator and instead of replacing it, I just plugged the port as I don't find that gage to be of much value.

2. The 1/4" gas line will work just fine. At the low velocity of the gas, the additional resisitance will be negligible in this application.

3. How long a tank will last depends on mostly on the cylinder capacity. I have both a 5 lb & a 20 lb cylinder. I use the big guy for force carbing and purging tasks. It lasts quite a while and I typically fill it two or three times a year. The small cylinder I use for off site parties etc as it is much easier to transport and lug around. The small cylinder is also my backup for the larger one.

4. Even a tiny leak will deplete a tank in a very short time. I got very weary of discovering my tank was empty due to a leak somewhere in the system. Now, I carbonate the kegs initially and then take them off the cylinder. Once properly carbed and cooled, a keg will maintain it's carb level for quite a long time without the need for the cylinder to be hooked up continuously. I give the kegs a booost occasionally if I notice the pour rate slowing. This will typically happen before you notice the carbonation level decreasing.

5. I recently made a cool modification to my system. I bought some 1/4" OD ice maker poly tubing and inserted it into the keg beer out dip tube. This mod effectively increased the resistance in the beer line and greatly reduces foaming at the tap when pouring. This also permits the use of much shorter beer lines. The poly tubing is incredibly cheap and it is very easy to install. It's also easy to remove when cleaning the kegs and dip tube. I highly recommend this modification. The difference is amazing.

6. Regarding system leaks. Check your keg post O-rings and replace them frequently. These O-rings are subjected to much more wear and tear than the others and are more prone to leaks. One product I have found to be very helpful is Lubrifilm. It's a thin food grade silicone lubricant in a spray can. Use this on all your O-rings and disconnects to reduce wear and improve the sealing properties. Lubrifilm is much less messy than keg lube which I hate as it is near impossible to wash off of anything it comes in contact with. A can of Lubrifilm will last for years as a little goes a long way. Excellent product!

7. This is probably more than all ya'all wanted to know, but that's just too fucking bad.

[Evan!]

Originally Posted by Big_John

5. I recently made a cool modification to my system. I bought some 1/4" OD ice maker poly tubing and inserted it into the keg beer out dip tube. This mod effectively increased the resistance in the beer line and greatly reduces foaming at the tap when pouring. This also permits the use of much shorter beer lines. The poly tubing is incredibly cheap and it is very easy to install. It's also easy to remove when cleaning the kegs and dip tube. I highly recommend this modification. The difference is amazing.

Even better than that are those epoxy mixer inserts. Wop has a thread about it here. I actually took the next step after his idea and instead of splicing the whole mixer into my beer line, I cut open the mixer and pulled out the insert...they fit perfectly into your liquid diptube!

[Big_John]

Originally Posted by Highlander

I've got a couple of keg questions. I have always bottled because using kegs has always seemed a lot of effort, and expensive. But since there are so many people here that use kegs, I may have the wrong impression:

- Once you get everything (fridge, kegs, CO2 cylinder, fittings, etc) how much does it cost to keg and consume a batch of beer? All that gear has to be a major investment to begin with.

- How much maintenence is there of the system?

- How quickly do you need to consume a keg?

- How many kegs do you really need. Say you like Pale Ales, Largers, and Stouts. Would you need 1 or more for each style? I assume you have to wait for one to empty before kegging the next. I guess it can sit in a carboy for as long as necessary and be ready for drinking shortly after kegging.

The intitial expense for a keg setup is considerable, but you can start with just a cylinder, regulator and a keg or two which is what I did. Later on down the road you can acquire more kegs and perhaps another cylinder as a back up. The maintenance required is minimal. Kegged beer longevity has never been a problem for me. I've kept kegged beer around for months and months without problems. This usually does not happen though, as if it's worth having around at all, I and my friends drink it up within a month or so usually. Five gallons of beer gets consumed much faster than you might expect and if you have cold and on tap, it tends to go even faster. It's just too easy to pour yourself a beer and repeatedly top up your mug. Much too easy really.

As for the number of kegs needed question, that all depends. I started out with a single keg. It was not long before I bought two more. Whenever I saw a good deal I would grab a couple more. Now I have 12 five gallon kegs and 4 three gallon ones. I'm good for the foreseeable future. At any given time I usually have about half of these filled or partially filled. I generally drink the beer faster than I produce it, so there has never been a shortage of kegs at my place. I give away a lot of my beer, so it's not just me consuming it. The best compliment you can receive is when your fellow home brewers drink your beer. That's how you can tell if it's really good or not.

So, kegging is convenient, but I am also one of those rare home brewers whol actually enjoys bottling some of my brew. I also like to be able to give a few bottles to friends on occasion. Bottling is not as much of a PIA as some make it out to be. A bench capper makes it a lot easier and faster. Washing bottles is also not a big deal if you do it right and it's especially easiy when you reuse your own bottles as they never get really cruddy so long as you risnse them promptly immediately after use.

[Big_John]

Originally Posted by Evan!

Even better than that are those epoxy mixer inserts. Wop has a thread about it here. I actually took the next step after his idea and instead of splicing the whole mixer into my beer line, I cut open the mixer and pulled out the insert...they fit perfectly into your liquid diptube!

Yes, I had read about using the epoxy mixer thingies. I was going to go that way intitially, but thought I would try the poly tubing first as I could buy locally for almost nothing. Next time I place an order with McMaster-Carr I plan to get some of the mixers and give them a try. I'm pretty happy with the poly tubing results so far.

I have one of those taps that attaches to a quick connect for use directly on a keg. That tap was always a PIA as it would foam at anything above about 1 PSI of keg pressure. I could pull the pressure release to momentarily reduce the pressure for pouring, but the pressure would climb right back up in a few minutes and cause foaming issues again. At parties, I had to constantly keep an eye on it and relieve the pressure. This was a major PIA and made the tap kind of impractical without constant supervison. The installation of the poly tubing in the DIP tube made a world of difference when using that tap. Jesus!