No Carbonation

[evolutionfxr]

Hello,

Was wondering if anybody could help me out.
I am making an amber ale. I used:
(1) 3.3 Amber Malt
(1) 3.3 Light Malt
2 oz. Fuggle hops
(1) vial White Labs WLP005 British Ale Yeast

After about 5 days I racked to a secondary. Then after another 4 days I added the priming sugar and bottled. It has now been 9 days after I bottled it and there is almost no carbonation. There is also a somewhat wine-like taste which I have seen others describe.
By contrast, my first batch was a pale ale with dry packet yeast. This had a nice head after nine days.

Could this be due to the high flocculation of the yeast? Maybe most of the yeast were left behind. I was thinking that after my next batch is coming out of the fermenter, popping these bottles and dumping them on the yeast cake, letting it settle for a few days and re-bottling.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

[Lamppa]

ok, the wine flavor is because the beer is not ready, not even close. Try one in 2 weeks of bottle conditioning and you will be amazed the differrence. Some beers taste good after 2 weeks in the bottle, but my last 2 took way longer. keep tasting one chilled bottle ever week or two.


and these guys will tell you good carbonation takes 3 weeks.


this is my new timeline for beer in a generic form


10 days primary
14 days secondary
21 days carbonation
14 days finishing conditioning

thats 8 1/2 weeks. I think thats reasonable. The beer will just get better as you wait.

You made some soup, all the ingredients are cooked, but its only been in the pot 30 minutes. It tastes thin and just ok. Let it simmer 3 hours, then try it. All the flavors blend and compliment eack other. Thats how I see it anyway.

[Lamppa]

oh and dumping this beer back on the yeast cake???? thats just asking for trouble. let it sit and do it different next time..
dont toss a beer after 3 weeks from brew-day!!!! wait up to 6 months then toss it if it still sucks.

and welcome to HBC...try the new member area for post #1

[Big_John]

My typical schedule is like this:

10 days to 2 weeks in the primary for ales.
2 to 3 weeks in the primary for lagers + 4-5 days for a diacetyl rest
Time in secondary for ales varies dpending on how fast it clears, but usually 2 weeks or so
Secondary for lagers is usually 6-8 weeks (lagering period)
3 weeks for bottle conditioning followed by another week of refrigeration before trying a bottle

In your case I would let the bottles condition for at least another week, then chill for an additional week and try a bottle. Be sure to keep the bottles at room temperature during the conditioning period. This helps the yeast do their carbonation thng faster. The subsequent chilling helps the CO2 trapped in the head space to soak into the beer faster and more completely. I would stongly suggest not opening the bottles and dumping them back onto a yeast cake at this point. You are at high risk of oxidation problems if you do that and it probably is not necessary. There should have been plenty of yeast remaining in suspension to get the carbonation job done. I've never had bottles fail to carbonate, but some did take longer than others. I have an Imperial Stout that I tested after only two weeks and a short one day chilling period. It was slightly carbed, but not enough. I'm going to give it another two weeks followed by one week of chilling and I'm confindent that it will be OK by then.

None of the above are hard and fast rules. You can vary considerably from these schedules without problems, but I have learned it's best to be patient and allow as much time as you can tolerate. The best thing you can do to occupy yourself in the meantime is to plan and brew your next recipe. Making a starter for your next batch or wash the yeast from that cake you mentioned will give you something to focus on. The time will fly by if you direct your attention to some other aspect of brewing. None of us have ever waited out the conditioning period without testing a bottle or two prematurely. It's impossible not to.

I like to give my beers plenty of time in the primary. There's shit happening in there even after most of the visual activity has ceased. I don't know this as a scientific fact, but more of just an intuitive thing. My beers don't seem to suffer any from being in the primary a little longer than necessary. Same with the secondary actually. Best advice is to not rush the beer. Beer hates that!

[Cookiebaggs]

Originally Posted by Big_John

I like to give my beers plenty of time in the primary. There's shit happening in there even after most of the visual activity has ceased. I don't know this as a scientific fact, but more of just an intuitive thing. My beers don't seem to suffer any from being in the primary a little longer than necessary. Same with the secondary actually. Best advice is to not rush the beer. Beer hates that!

+1

I've been doing 3 weeks primary for ales, crash cool for a week to 10 days, then bottle and keg.

[Ó Flannagáin]

What temperature have they been stored at in the bottles?

[evolutionfxr]

Wow, thanks for all the prompt replies.
Mr. O, the bottles have been stored at around 70 for the past 3 days or so. Before that it was a little colder. (about 64 or so.) Apartment is in San Diego so I normally don't use the heater. Temp inside is close to the ambient temperature outside.
I understand about waiting a few weeks longer. It is just that my first ale which I brewed (Pale ale with packet yeast) turned out so well and carbonated quickly, I was just wondering if I was doing something wrong with the liquid yeast.
I just checked on the White Labs website and they do recommend longer primary fermentation with the higher flocculating yeasts such as the British Ale I used.
I will let the bottles sit for a while longer and let you guys know.
Thanks much!

[Highlander]

The difference in carbomation times between your beers could have a lot to do with the yeast you used. There are probably many things that contribute (even the phase of the moon), but it's nice to have an idea of something that could have accounted for it.

WPL005 temperature range is 64 F to 72 F. Below this range the yeast can stop working (don't worry, they wake up again when the temperature rises), and above this range they throw off strange esters. If your bottles were kept around 64, (or possibly less), the yeast would not have been doing much until you brought them up to 70 F for the past 3 days. 64 F is high for a lower limit, and the dry yeast you used probably had a better tolerance to lower temperatures.

Leave them for a couple of weeks, carbonation should be fine.

[shrekfx]

I would recommend to up your time table a bit on everything though. Even though fermentation can complete in 5 days. You still want to give a couple extra days for the yeast to clean up after them selves. Then rack to a secondary and give about another week to clear and condition and 4 weeks to carbonate and you should be set.

[UnderDogs]

Originally Posted by Cookiebaggs

+1

I've been doing 3 weeks primary for ales, crash cool for a week to 10 days, then bottle and keg.

Would you recommend crash cooling for a secondary. I'm making the Bubblegum head wheat on the recipe forum that says 2 weeks in Primary and dry hop 2 weeks in secondary.

My basement here in Michigan puts it around 60-62 degrees so I brought my fermenter upstairs to 70 degree for primary.

When I transfer to my secondary should i put it in the basement at 62 degrees for 2 weeks?