Evan, Starr Hill?

[PseudoChef]

Started seeing some Starr Hill six packs around here - Jomo Lager, Dark Star Stout, and what I could have sworn was an IPA, but I can't find one of those on their site, so it must have been a Pale Ale.

Worth it for $8-9 a sixer?

[Evan!]

SH used to be better, when they were just a local brewpub/restaurant. Then they went into bottling and distribution (I think they contract to Bud?) and the quality suffered. That having been said, it's not bad stuff, still.

The Dark Starr is definitely worth a try. The Jomo is...pedestrian. I think they do have an IPA, but it's a quasi-seasonal offering or something like that, so it may not be on their website. It's okay...a little watery IMO. Could use a better malt backbone. If they have all that stuff, they probably have the amber too, which was the first one they sent out for widespread distro. It's not half bad either. The Dark Starr is probably my favorite of their regular lineup, though.

[Chimone]

Thats happened to my favorite AZ brewery 4 Peaks. They made absolutely awesome craft beer, but once they decided to go macro the quality just isn't there anymore. I wouldn't call it bad beer now........but it's definitely not what it once was.

[Flyin' Lion]

What would be the cause of this? Is there a requirement to cut corners when a brewery has to up their volume? Or are ingredient costs too high to facilitate the same level of quality on a larger scale?

[Evan!]

What would be the cause of this? Is there a requirement to cut corners when a brewery has to up their volume? Or are ingredient costs too high to facilitate the same level of quality on a larger scale?

I think it can be attributed in many cases to growing pains---not being able to have as much control over the minutiae of the process as it grows and grows.

Either that, or...as they go for a wider audience, they intentionally "dumb down" some of their beers for the budweiser-swilling public.

[ohiobrewtus]

I think it can be attributed in many cases to growing pains---not being able to have as much control over the minutiae of the process as it grows and grows.

Either that, or...as they go for a wider audience, they intentionally "dumb down" some of their beers for the budweiser-swilling public.

I'd guess that it's a mixture of both of these along with a desire to increase profit margins. Cutting a few corners once they get that major distribution deal can mean a lot more dollars.

[Flyin' Lion]

Either that, or...as they go for a wider audience, they intentionally "dumb down" some of their beers for the budweiser-swilling public.

That makes sense, but its an odd thought process. If the original was good enough to garner a larger distribution contract, then it shoudn't need to be dumbed down.

Then again, I don't normally think like the masses. That's probably why beer-flavored-water is still so popular.

[Evan!]

That makes sense, but its an odd thought process. If the original was good enough to garner a larger distribution contract, then it shoudn't need to be dumbed down.

I don't know...it seems logical to me. Stay with me here: you're a small brewpub, and you make good beer. You develop a loyal local following who loves your beer because the know good beer. Then you decide to go mass-distro. That requires quite an investment, and that investment at a baseline requires that you sell to more than just beer geeks---even if beer geeks were sustaining you at the brewpub level, the increased investment here means you need to appeal to a much larger audience.

At least that's how I see it. Many people are smarter than that, though...Blue Mountain manages to have a kickass product...but then, Taylor's not willing to ship outside of Virginia. The fact that Kyle's seeing SH in Nashville means that they've got a pretty wide distro area...that may be the difference.

[Flyin' Lion]

I don't know...it seems logical to me. Stay with me here: you're a small brewpub, and you make good beer. You develop a loyal local following who loves your beer because the know good beer. Then you decide to go mass-distro. That requires quite an investment, and that investment at a baseline requires that you sell to more than just beer geeks---even if beer geeks were sustaining you at the brewpub level, the increased investment here means you need to appeal to a much larger audience.

At least that's how I see it. Many people are smarter than that, though...Blue Mountain manages to have a kickass product...but then, Taylor's not willing to ship outside of Virginia. The fact that Kyle's seeing SH in Nashville means that they've got a pretty wide distro area...that may be the difference.


Oh, I'm with ya. ;) It just seems like they're trading one customer base for another. When an alternative solution would be to produce a different beer to draw in the BMC crowd, rather than dumbing down one that has an established, loyal customer base.

That is assuming the quality suffers from an intentional change in recipe, rather than the growing pains you alluded to before.

[Union Brewer]

If it was me, I would continue to serve up the very same brew at the brewpub that I always have. If I had to "dumb down" for the mass production I wouldn't let it effect the people who put me in the position to grow and reach a wider audience. You have to stay loyal to those who put you where you are. JMO.

[Chimone]

This is just my drunken opiunion so dont mine me. However I feel that the craft aspect is gone once you reach a certain size. The TLC that once went into your process is replaced by probes, cameras, automation, etc etc. Where did the love go? Shit we all know beer needs to be nurtured from day one, it needs love dude. Fucking A man, a control panel cant give it the love it needs. It needs your mash paddle shoved up it's ass and stirred vigorously, it need you face buried in the sack of hops savoring the aroma before you dump it in the kettle, It needs someone jsut sitting there enjoying the smell of brewday with a beer in their hand getting smashed.

I think Im going to cry now....poor, poor macro swill

[Evan!]

This is just my drunken opiunion so dont mine me. However I feel that the craft aspect is gone once you reach a certain size. The TLC that once went into your process is replaced by probes, cameras, automation, etc etc. Where did the love go? Shit we all know beer needs to be nurtured from day one, it needs love dude. Fucking A man, a control panel cant give it the love it needs. It needs your mash paddle shoved up it's ass and stirred vigorously, it need you face buried in the sack of hops savoring the aroma before you dump it in the kettle, It needs someone jsut sitting there enjoying the smell of brewday with a beer in their hand getting smashed.

I think Im going to cry now....poor, poor macro swill

Sheeeheeeeit, this coming from the owner of the big automated Brutus 10. You wanna talk about love? I still pour my strike and mash water straight into the mash tun manually...like, I pick up the HLT (really just a 8 gallon kettle) and dump it in. I don't need no fancy-pants HERMS or whatever...ooh, look at me, I have a recirculating mash system with a bunch of pumps and valves, I'm soooo special! ;););)

Seriously, though, I get what you're saying...but at the end of the day, I've still had some pretty awesome beers from some of the "big" craft brewers like rogue, southern tier, stone, etc.

[Chimone]

hrmmm......touche fucker

:D

[Ó Flannagáin]

...like, I pick up the HLT (really just a 8 gallon kettle) and dump it in.

Same here brother, which has resulted in two big scars on my leg from hitting the burner. Pics to come.

[Evan!]

Same here brother, which has resulted in two big scars on my leg from hitting the burner. Pics to come.

That's what happens when you have a combination of your puny weakling muscles (or lack thereof) and 8 pints of standard stout before you even turn on the strike water burner. :D

[Flyin' Lion]

I pick up the HLT (really just a 8 gallon kettle) and dump it in. I don't need no fancy-pants HERMS or whatever...ooh,


I've seen this first hand, it's really quite impressive.:)

Even more impressive, when you figure the strippers and pole dancers would have distracted him.