Moving to Mini-Mash

[landis]

After some of our previous discussions about Ó Flannagáin's Stout and Flaked barley and k4df4l's recommendation to do do a partial mash I decided to do a little more research on the topic. I came across this two year old article from BYO (http://byo.com/feature/1536.html).

The method in the article sounded good to me, because I could continue my 3 gallon boils, yet still being to utilize some AG benefits.

In the article they used a 2 gallon igloo cooler and a mesh bag during the mash. Is that the best method? I know I've read about contraptions that people build with braided hoses and other plumbing parts and there is no use for the mesh bag.

[Ó Flannagáin]

The mesh bag will work fine for a small partial mash, but I do recommend upgrading to a braid or manifold once you go AG.

[Tankard]

I was actually going to build a 3 gallon MLT for my friend for his birthday, and I was going to use the stainless steel tube method. The parts are easy to find at Home Depot. I would recommend that you seek out a 3 gallon cooler opposed to a 2 gallon cooler, simply because you can fit more grain in there. The more grain you substitute in the recipe to replace extract, the better.

[MrMarbleHead]

If you are going to go with a 3 gallon cooler, you should just get a 5 gallon. I am pretty sure the price difference between the two would be negligable, and then when you are ready to go to full five gallon all grain boils, you will already have your mash tun.

Looking around some, on the Rubermaid website you can get a 2 gallon cooler for $17 and a five gallon cooler for $30. So a little more of a difference there. BUT

I remember seeing somewhere, it may have been ACE or Lowes or Home Depot, or something like that, had 5 gallon ones for $25 and under. If you have a Menards, Big Lots, Orschlen, around you I would check there, I see them at those stores for cheap all the time.

Like I said, just keeps from having to buy a bigger cooler for when you want to go to all grain. There shouldn't be any problem doing a partial/mini Mash in a 5 gallon cooler.

[Tankard]

For partial mashing purposes, wouldn't a 5 gallon be too large? I'd worry about heat loss, considering so much open space inside.

[dzlater]

For partial mashing purposes, wouldn't a 5 gallon be too large? I'd worry about heat loss, considering so much open space inside.

I did it and it worked fine. I did cut out a piece of foam board the same diameter as the cooler and covered it with alumimun foil then slid that down inside the cooler right at the top of the mash. This helped with any heat loss issues, I still use it for my all grain batches.

[Ó Flannagáin]

I did it and it worked fine. I did cut out a piece of foam board the same diameter as the cooler and covered it with alumimun foil then slid that down inside the cooler right at the top of the mash. This helped with any heat loss issues, I still use it for my all grain batches.

Serious MacGuyver move there. Love it.

[landis]

Is there a quick write up of the supplies needed to make a braid or manifold?

If I'm heading out to HomeDepot to pick up a cooler I might as well go all the way and make this thing the right way.

[Ó Flannagáin]

The hardest part is getting together the right washers and stuff for the faucet. I think WOP has a write up here somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.

[Ó Flannagáin]

There's a few pics of different styles in this thread, can't find a write up though. We definitely need one on this board though.

http://www.homebrewchatter.com/board/showthread.php?t=1278&highlight=washer

[landis]

Thanks for the links - they will definitely help.

I could see this getting out of hand quick, so I wonder how long until I have a full AG system?

I guess I'll try and pace myself...we'll see how that works.

[Ope08]

The hardest part is getting together the right washers and stuff for the faucet. I think WOP has a write up here somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.


I can't speak to what THD carries, ( as they are filthy and evil and run by marcabian despots...imho...)
I got all my parts from Lowes, but in this video I list out the actual part numbers for each necc part. I use a phils phalse bottom in my converted bev cooler, but you can hook anything up to it I assume...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMUs8snPbuE

[landis]

That video was great Ope08, thank you.

Man, now I'm getting stoked to make this thing.

[Ope08]

Thanks for the links - they will definitely help.

I could see this getting out of hand quick, so I wonder how long until I have a full AG system?

I guess I'll try and pace myself...we'll see how that works.



Seriously my brother you do not need a thousand dollars worth of equipment to go all-grain. The ONLY thing I use to do an AG batch, over an extract or mini-mash, is the converted beverage cooler. I did an AG batch a little over a week ago and I used:

20qt SS stock pot for heating up mash and sparge water...
Converted beverage cooler with "Phalse" bottom.
7gal pot and turkey fryer.
5gal glass carboy.
misc tubing, air-lock, cleaning products..

No pumps, manifolds, bazookas, herms, smart, nothin'....

Not that more involved systems are nicer or easier or what have you, but they are not strictly speaking necessary either...

[landis]

20qt SS stock pot for heating up mash and sparge water...
Converted beverage cooler with "Phalse" bottom.
7gal pot and turkey fryer.
5gal glass carboy.
misc tubing, air-lock, cleaning products..


Were you able to cool that down without some sort of chiller? I usually just put it in my sink and change out the ice a few times. Takes about an hour to get 3 gallons down to a pitchable temp.

[Ope08]

Sorry, yes, I have a wort chiller that I use, but I would not call it a requirement. My boil-pot cannot be removed from the fryer stand, so I pretty much HAVE to use the chiller. However, if I could remove it I could chill in other ways. I my first ever batch, LONG before I bought the chiller, I siphoned from the boil-pot to the carboy with a loooong tube that I ran thru an ice bath.

The chiller cost about 50$, its worth the price if you are doing full boils.
...and full boils are worth doing...

[landis]

Yeah, after my past few brews, and then the discussion about flaked barley I've been realizing I need to take some additional steps and change something around.

My brews have been good and I have no problem drinking them - I'm just looking to make them better. Not really any off flavors (except for a soap issue, but that's being fixed) just more bland flavors.

[Ronthered]

Landis,
You don't need to do any of that. My partial mash history was all done in my boil kettle with a large nylon or cotton grain bag. Crush the grains as you would, put them in the bag, and steep the bag in your 3 gallons of water at your mashing temp, 150 to 155.
Tea bag it once in a while and use a mash paddle or large spoon to kind of stir the grains around in the bag or by smashing the bag lightly. ( no comments about tea bagging ). after an hour you have mashed. no problem, In the mean time use another pasta pot or something to heat up a little water to about 170 to use to rinse your grains after your mash is done. Start your boil and proceed as you would with adding your extract and hops. I was mashing up to 7 or 8 pounds of grain this way by the end of the partial mashing days. In fact my very first all grain batch was done this same way. And it turned out great. Just go simple until you feel like stepping it up man..

[dzlater]

Seriously my brother you do not need a thousand dollars worth of equipment to go all-grain. The ONLY thing I use to do an AG batch, over an extract or mini-mash, is the converted beverage cooler. I did an AG batch a little over a week ago and I used:

20qt SS stock pot for heating up mash and sparge water...
Converted beverage cooler with "Phalse" bottom.
7gal pot and turkey fryer.
5gal glass carboy.
misc tubing, air-lock, cleaning products..

No pumps, manifolds, bazookas, herms, smart, nothin'....

Not that more involved systems are nicer or easier or what have you, but they are not strictly speaking necessary either...

All I did to "convert" my cooler was to remove the spigot I then just jammed a piece of CPVC through the hole made a CPVC manifold. for the out flow I got a female threaded fitting jammed it on the pipe and then used the spigot from my bottling bucket. No real fittings at all and doesn't leak either. Since I got the cooler for free it only cost me a couple bucks for the pipe.

[bsay]

I also use a 2 gallon cooler for Partial Mash batches (and mini AG). I have yet to put a manifold or anything other than the stock spigot on it, but I am planning to soon. So far, it's worked great. I need to seriously update my sig with my recent brews.

[Redweasel]

I had great success doing mini mashes with a 3gal rubbermaid with a braid. I also know a great brewer that does his in a 5 gallon pot in the oven.

[landis]

I think for the first time around I'll keep it nice and simple and see how that goes. Then progressively move on from there.

Maybe a trip to Home Depot or the likes to review my options is in order.

[Lerxst]

Landis,
You don't need to do any of that. My partial mash history was all done in my boil kettle with a large nylon or cotton grain bag. Crush the grains as you would, put them in the bag, and steep the bag in your 3 gallons of water at your mashing temp, 150 to 155.
Tea bag it once in a while and use a mash paddle or large spoon to kind of stir the grains around in the bag or by smashing the bag lightly. ( no comments about tea bagging ). after an hour you have mashed. no problem, In the mean time use another pasta pot or something to heat up a little water to about 170 to use to rinse your grains after your mash is done. Start your boil and proceed as you would with adding your extract and hops. I was mashing up to 7 or 8 pounds of grain this way by the end of the partial mashing days. In fact my very first all grain batch was done this same way. And it turned out great. Just go simple until you feel like stepping it up man..

That's how I did my mini/PMs....made some great beer that way!

[Ronthered]

Yeah, I mean just to get into it and figure shit out it worked fine.

[bsay]

What I like about Partial Mash is that you can take most AG recipes, minus out some/all of the base malt (usually 2-row, or some other pale malt) and use a program like Beersmith to match the OG, SRM & IBUs. I use X-light DME for the extract portion.

[landis]

Is there one style of beer that benefits most from Partial Mashes and AG?

I'm looking forward to trying out some of these methods over the weekend, but I'd really like to try something that a partial mash would really help. I have 10 gallons of IPA in the basement right now, so maybe something different.

I've never had a rye beer, that might be fun. Or maybe you need to really go AG for that. I'm just looking forward to trying something new.

[Tankard]

Certain grains, like oats, MUST be mashed in order for the starches to convert to fermentable sugars. There are just some styles of beer that cannot be made by traditional extract methods. Oatmeal stouts come to mind right away. There are many others as well.

There was a good chart a while back that showed the different grain types and what needed to occur for starch conversion... I wish I still had it saved in my "favorites."

[Ope08]

Certain grains, like oats, MUST be mashed in order for the starches to convert to fermentable sugars. There are just some styles of beer that cannot be made by traditional extract methods. Oatmeal stouts come to mind right away. There are many others as well.

There was a good chart a while back that showed the different grain types and what needed to occur for starch conversion... I wish I still had it saved in my "favorites."


I'm going to disagree with you on that one Tankard, I don't see any reason why you couldn't have any kind of extract. Perhaps extract makers choose not to make kits that include oatmeal for a reason, but extract is just condensed sweet-wort, so I'm not aware of any reason why they couldn't extract it if they wanted to.

On a side note, the type of beer that benefits most from partial or AG would be custom brews. It doesn't matter what actual STYLE of brew it is, but it does matter greatly that you are going to add sweet orange peel, coriander, and vanilla bean, and for some reason you can't find the correct extract kits to serve as the correct base....

That being said, it may just be that no extract maker wants to!

I've always looked at it this way. mini-mash/partial extract, or AG give you more control over your specific ingredients, and even the freshness of those ingredients. Its no different than scratch baking a cake or buying a box of Betty Crocker. Both will make a cake, both have potential to be pretty damn good. ( that is except for the known fact that the cake is a lie...)
But in the scratch made cake you can choose to put your own twist on any aspect of the process or ingredients.

[Tankard]

My mistake, I didn't explain myself well enough. By "traditional extract methods", I was referring more towards standard extract mixed with steeping specialty grains. You can't convert the sugar from some grains by steeping and they must be mashed. Thanks for clearing that up.

I still wonder why they don't make extract with these specialty grains, if they are able to?

[Ó Flannagáin]

welllllll... to be devil's advocate, if you through in some two row in the steeping grains you would get some conversion. When you steep you are basically mashing for a half hour.

[Ronthered]

Yeah Tank I disagree, I made an awesome extract partial mash OatMeal Stout when I first started out. Not to gang up on you or anything. Just saying.

[Ó Flannagáin]

My first two extract brews were oatmeal stout, and I don't remember all the characters they had, but I do remember they got me addicted to brewing.

[Ronthered]

Hell yes they did, Mine was like 8.6 % also, It was so good,

[landis]

my first "brew" was a mr.beer canadian draft with raspberries. That thing was utterly terrible, so I found a local homebrew store and the guy set me up with a can of pre-hopped irish stout. Just enough to make 2.5 gallons in my mr. beer container and that thing had so much flavor.

Quickly I started picking up more brewing supplies started doing extract with steeping grains and look now - on the verge of my first partial mash.

[Ronthered]

My first brew was Mr.Beer. Worst shit I ever had, Some kind of Pale.

[Tankard]

See I was under the impression that to make an oatmeal stout with extract, it would usually come with oats that you have to mash separately.

I stand corrected..... douches.

[mr x]

my first "brew" was a mr.beer canadian draft with raspberries. See, that's just fucking wrong.

[Ó Flannagáin]

See I was under the impression that to make an oatmeal stout with extract, it would usually come with oats that you have to mash separately.

I stand corrected..... douches.

You probably do to get any sort of fermentables out of em, but oats add a lot of wonderfulness other than fermentables.. they add a great creaminess, some body, good flavor, etc.

[landis]

See, that's just fucking wrong.

I don't know what I was thinking for trying it, but I guess I was excited to brew my first beer.

Mountain Raspberry (http://www.mrbeer.com/product-exec/product_id/166/nm/Mountain_Raspberry/section/product_info)

So terrible...

[mr x]

I didn't mean you, I meant Mr. Beer. We all start out doing odd shit.lol