zum Uerige Altbier

[Kellermeister]

zum Uerige Altbier

11 gallon batch (resulting wort)

23lb pilsner
12oz Weyermann Caramunich III
4oz Weyermann Carafa III
strike 9 gallons at 167F
mash 1 hour at 148F
sparge 7.5 gallons at 185F
3oz leaf Hallertauer 60 minutes
3oz leaf Spalt 20 minutes
Wyeast 1007
SRM 13
OG 1.049 at 60% efficiency
IBU 37

[Kellermeister]

Tasting this brew 5 weeks after brewdate.

color too light, increase SRM.
not bitter enough, add carafa
not enough body, push to 1.055
foam is good
clarity is good
too much hop flavor, don't use flavor or aroma hops, use only bittering (60 min)

Targets for next recipe:
OG 1.055
SRM 20
IBU 30

94% pilsner
4% caramunich III
2% carafa III
Spalt, 60 minute boil, to make 30 IBU
mash 148F

[Lamppa]

How does caraffa effect bitterness?

[Kellermeister]

It has a coffee like taste. Not extremely bitter, just a little bit

Maybe bitter is the wrong word to describe it.

I think the final recipe (if there ever is one) will have between 1.5% and 2% carafa III.

[Lamppa]

I get it now. The coffee bitter is more of an astringency. Caraffa or dehusked should be better/ less astringent.

[Kellermeister]

Well, the key flavor in alt is a bitter background flavor that comes from roasted malt. Some alts have more, some have less of this flavor, but it is generally seen as positive to have a roasty, bitter background flavor. It is very similar to coffee flavor and comes in part from heavily roasted barley or wheat (carafa or weizenröstmalz).

This roast flavor is mellowed a bit by the addition of caramunich, which is malty without being too sweet.

[Lamppa]

it is generally seen as positive to have a roasty, bitter background flavor.


Flavor : Assertive hop bitterness well balanced by a sturdy yet clean and crisp malt character. The malt presence is moderated by moderately-high to high attenuation, but considerable rich and complex malt flavors remain. Some fruity esters may survive the lagering period. A long-lasting, medium-dry to dry, bittersweet or nutty finish reflects both the hop bitterness and malt complexity. Noble hop flavor can be moderate to low. No roasted malt flavors or harshness. No diacetyl. Some yeast strains may impart a slight sulfury character. A light minerally character is also sometimes present in the finish, but is not required. The apparent bitterness level is sometimes masked by the high malt character; the bitterness can seem as low as moderate if the finish is not very dry.

[Kellermeister]

That style description is WRONG

There are two main malt characters in an alt:

Caramunich

and

Carafa, which is a roasted barley.

Look at the Weyermann roast malt page:

http://www.weyermann.de/ger/produkte.asp?idkat=5&umenue=yes&idmenue=2&sprache=1

[Lamppa]

That style description is WRONG

There are two main malt characters in an alt:

Caramunich

and

Carafa, which is a roasted barley.


i dont know where you get that information, but i am interested to view such documents. I looked it up BJCP - 7C.
I like alts. Astringency is a major flaw.

[PseudoChef]

Flavor : Assertive hop bitterness well balanced by a sturdy yet clean and crisp malt character. The malt presence is moderated by moderately-high to high attenuation, but considerable rich and complex malt flavors remain. Some fruity esters may survive the lagering period. A long-lasting, medium-dry to dry, bittersweet or nutty finish reflects both the hop bitterness and malt complexity. Noble hop flavor can be moderate to low. No roasted malt flavors or harshness. No diacetyl. Some yeast strains may impart a slight sulfury character. A light minerally character is also sometimes present in the finish, but is not required. The apparent bitterness level is sometimes masked by the high malt character; the bitterness can seem as low as moderate if the finish is not very dry.

And adding onto that, Zum Uerige is the number one listed style of Dusseldorf Alt:


Commercial Examples: Altstadt brewpubs: Zum Uerige

[Kellermeister]

Certainly the roast flavor should not dominate, it is a background flavor, almost an aftertaste that lingers. But take a look at reviews of the beer, there are many mentioning a roast flavor.

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/1923/6355

Here is a recipe from someone who knows more about alt than I do. It is not a zum Uerige clone, it is darker and more malty. However it is based on an old altbier recipe from a German source.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Kaiser_Alt

I used to live about an hour from Dusseldorf in altbier country. I know how alt is supposed to taste and have done a lot of experimental brews to find the right specialty malts for an alt. My opinion: Caramunich and carafa are essential ingredients in an altbier, based on my many batches attempting to copy altbier. There are many who agree, if you take a look at recipes for altbier. Although there are more bad recipes than good ones out there.

[Lamppa]

I lived in Detroit once but that doesnt make me a mechanic.

That was a joke, not a jab.

[Kellermeister]

What does it take to get a change in the BJCP?

[PseudoChef]

What does it take to get a change in the BJCP?

When you can convince the Grand Master V judge who has no doubt also been to Dusseldorf and sampled the beer that he's wrong.

[Kellermeister]

I would think that they would want to correct mistakes. It is somewhat embarrassing that americans pretend to know German beer and then screw it up completely.

[PseudoChef]

I would think that they would want to correct mistakes. It is somewhat embarrassing that americans pretend to know German beer and then screw it up completely.

Yep, the highest ranking BJCP judge in the country sure is screwing everything up! Lulz.

[Kellermeister]

A Grand Master V, eh?

Perhaps I should obtain a cloak of obfuscatorfication, a chalice of superciliosity and a wand of pretentiosity before I approach him!

[salad 419]

A Grand Master V, eh?

Perhaps I should obtain a cloak of obfuscatorfication, a chalice of superciliosity and a wand of pretentiosity before I approach him!

The wand isn't needed, but it does help.

PS, I've forwarded your Corny Keg page to quite a few folks that just got into kegging.