big problem!!

[fightingswede]

Hey -- I made an Octoberfest from a clone recipe to Ayinger's. Everything seemed to go well and I taste-tested it about two weeks after bottling and it was terrific. That was the first of May. Now, approaching August 1, it really tastes like crap. It doesn't seem to have the carbonation it once did and it tastes tart and cidery. What the hell is going on? Anyone have some advice on this? Thanks in advance.:k2:

[broadbill]

What was the recipe? How did fermentation go? Did you lager it from May to August?

Sounds like you have some sort of infection come in at bottling.

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Captain Obvious asks, "are the caps secure and not leaking? And have you tried more than one bottle?"

Sounds like inconsistent bottling. If you had an infection, 99% of the time you end up with over-carbonation. Maybe not thoroughly mixed primer or loose caps.

[fightingswede]

It was fermented at lager temps from 2/22 - 3/8, then in a secondary from 3/8 until 4/8. Recipe was an Ayinger clone recipe I got from BYO magazine. For Captain Obvious, bottling is fine and I have definitely tried more than one bottle. Appreciate your efforts. Keep 'em coming.

[Rhoobarb]

I'm still going with leaky bottles. Were they screw-top bottles? Nothing else I can think of would give it that flavor and make them lose carbonation.

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Hmmm.... temperature dependent? Have you tried them colder or allowing them to warm up? I am not sure, but that is a long time period so they should be good and lagered out. Are they clear?

I have a hard time believing it is an infection if there is not a lot of carbonation.

[fightingswede]

The bottles are the pry-off type. I haven't paid any attention to whether or not any "cloud" comes up when I open one but will pay attention on the next. that should tell me, I think, if the carbonation is leaking or not, won't it? As for temperature, the bottle I had last night had been on ice for 7 hours and was cold enough -- just weird.

[badogg]

The bottles are the pry-off type. I haven't paid any attention to whether or not any "cloud" comes up when I open one but will pay attention on the next. that should tell me, I think, if the carbonation is leaking or not, won't it? As for temperature, the bottle I had last night had been on ice for 7 hours and was cold enough -- just weird.

I don't know if it is even possible for carbonation to go away once it was there unless there was a leak in the caps. I would guess either leaky cap or as mentioned priming sugar not mixed in enough or something. Try another bottle that would be totally out of order not next to the ones you are looking at. I would find it very hard to believe that they were once carbed and now not.

[christo]

The cidery notes could be acetobacter, if air could have gotten to the beer. Tart notes could be a lactic bacteria strain.

What was your priming regimen? Did you boil/cool a solution of priming sugar or just drop some priming tabs in the bottle. It's somewhat possible to pick up an off-flavor from priming tabs if the bag was opened and something like a fruit fly made its way into it or other unseen enemies. I would agree though, that typically carbonation will increase in an infected beer as the bacteria eat the remaining sugars that the yeast don't. Could go back to the stirring/mixing comments made is that the priming sugar was stratified so that some bottles conditioned well while others not so much. Lastly, how did you clean/sanitize the bottle caps? Boiling caps can lift off the interior rubber ring so that you don't get a good seal.

Just a few thoughts

[fightingswede]

I'll try some of the bottles to the back of the box to see if I didn't get it mixed right at bottling. I used sugar to carbonate and I boil the caps, although I've always boiled them and never had a problem. Thanks for all of the suggestions, guys. Hate to give this to the dog, but I may have to.

[badogg]

Hate to give this to the dog, but I may have to.

Hops are toxic to teh pooches.

Unless you mean me of course. ;)

Also, if they all seem to not be carbed, taste it and see if it tastes on the sweet side. Would be subtle, but it would tell you that the yeast were dead or something. You could try to sprinkle a few grains of yeast in a bottle and see if it carbs up in a couple of weeks? Then do that to all of them.

[flyangler18]

Hops are toxic to teh pooches.

Oh no, not this again. :rolleyes:

[badogg]

Oh no, not this again. :rolleyes:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dKIzktZC71M/Sb8jfY-y1II/AAAAAAAAADU/637fr1c4or8/s320/the_more_you_know2.jpg